I thought we were over that issue.
I thought so, too. I had even reached the conclusion that we all are the same at the very core.
Hmmm, may I ask what the similarities could be between my next door neighbor and Johnny Hallyday?
They're both persons.
Comrade...
At the precocious age of nine, I wondered why factories that pollute air and water remained in operation, knowing that they were destroying the environment and harming people's health and lives. I couldn't understand why the polluters were not willing to stop even after learning about the deaths that they caused.
I don't think Johnny was there to give a charity concert on behalf of the victims.
I kept thinking hard and realized that it was just fate that some happened to be owners and others workers and residents. It could have been the other way around.
By a slight of hand of Fortuna, or her wink, tick, nod, snort, cough, sneeze...
It occurred to me that all involved were fighting for the same thing, but that without realizing.
How so?
The factory owners needed to support their families and so did the residents. Closing down the factories would help the locals, but not the owners. Allowing them open would help the owners, but not the people who live in the area. I thought they ought to have a frank talk. "Look, we wish to stay healthy and buy nice gifts for our children, and so do you. All of us desire the same. We should work together."
Instead of recognizing their commonality, they were driven by their own immediate needs.
Later, I learned that the people in capitalist countries thought that the communist regimes must be doing a better job in protecting the environment, while the people in communist countries thought that capitalism must be superior.
In both systems, people in power are driven more by personal interest than by common good; neither has a clearly better record than the other.
I went as far as to say that the amount of evilness we carry in ourselves are more or less the same.
Obviously, you can't say we are all Hitler or all Mother Teresa, and in fact, they are no different from each other!
I do not disagree with that. Apart from personal variations, we have about the same amount of tendency to be mean and cruel.
And how big the variations are! Your statements are meaningless, I'm afraid.
My claim is that we grossly differ in how we are trained to suppress and conceal them. Some of such tricks we learn as part of our culture, and some others we pick up based on our individual experiences.
So your conclusion is that we are the same, and yet different in exhibiting that sameness.
You can say that. Nastiness can be hidden somewhere. For example, Culture Cherry may inculcate politeness. Suppose Cherry People happen to have little contact with the outside world. When they encounter Apple People, some would extend the politeness, but others could be outright impolite.
Doesn't it depend on whether Apple People are considered on par with Cherry People?
It is dependent on each Cherry person, whether s/he thinks politeness is a virtue with or without conditional clauses. Especially, if Culture Apple does not discipline its people to conceal nastiness as much, it encourages Cherry People to show their meanness as they come to contact with it.
We often mistake that Cherry People will be polite whatever the circumstances, but that is not true.
Cherry People may retain their politeness because they are inflexible and cannot change their behavior, or because they examine the situation and conclude that the same principle should be applied to Apple People. Politeness could be either unconscious or conscious.
Put differently, some Cherry People may unknowingly extrapolate their rule on politeness to Apple People, but they may also abandon it without knowing if Apple People are impolite.
We cannot avoid being influenced by our surroundings, and that especially if we have not thought about that possibility. In any case, the point was that I thought I could say that we are the same if we are to abandon our conventions.
That's a big 'if,' isn't it?
It is... And I already know that it is not true, because conventions have the power to become our true intentions if practiced for a long time.
You mean, we can become genuine devils by vigorous training which aims for that? Or saints through appropriate training?
Yes, I am quite certain that some cultures are adept at suppressing certain negative emotions and that for good.
But you have been telling me that people cannot fundamentally change!
I realize that the statement needs some qualifications. Cultures shape us while growing up.
In other words, some Cherry kids become genuinely polite and some Apple kids truly impolite?
Yes. I think we are born with about the same amount of evilness, but that can be suppressed, even eliminated, depending on the way we are brought up to see human relationships and the world. Once we reach that critical age of eighteen, most of us become set in that aspect. Either as children or adults, we can only imagine that others would be like us, but when very young, we still have the flexibility to understand and incorporate ways that are totally different from ours.
I thought we all wanted to think that others are inferior to us in one way or another, not exactly like us.
We harbor the contradictory idea that we are all alike and yet we are the best among them. It is fascinating that the contradiction is so common.
What about young children who think that their parents are the best people in the world?
That is an important exception, and so are the lovers who are in adoration of each other.
Those cases aside, we think that we are at least in one aspect better than the people whom we know. At the same time, we think that they are just like us?
Just like us in the sense that we are constrained in imagining the motivations that drive behavior. Lately, I have been witnessing exasperation among people who wish to understand me.
... Who can blame them?
Themselves, because I am consistent.
In your own wicked way...
It is interesting to observe people trying little gimmicks to get my attention and failing. They keep on going in circles as if blinded by a blizzard.
You are wicked!
Well, the insults and lies meant to discredit and hurt me cannot be made up by telling me that the bread that I brought---it was a cake, mind you---was delicious, or by smiling emphatically and being chummy with me more than usual.
Sounds like you are back in elementary school.
Doesn't it? I was wondering why they resort to such means and why they are surprised that those fall flat.
Isn't it because they think that you are at that level?
That did pass my mind, but I came to the conclusion that it is not the case. I am certain that they themselves are at that very level and cannot think of other levels or types of motivation and behavior.
Don't we all suffer from that problem, though? Suppose I come across a person who is addicted to drugs. If I learn her/his background, I would probably understand how s/he came to be an addict, but not how s/he has failed to kick the habit.
You are right. There are many cases for which we would say, "Yes, yes, yes, I understand. But, why doesn't he go for the Obvious Solution?" "Well, that's not what he wants." "But, he wants to get out of the current state, right?" "Yes, but the Obvious Solution is not the one for him, apparently..."
Hence, your withdrawal of the statement that we are all the same at the core.
We are very much limited by who we are in understanding others. People who expect to have official rules bent for themselves would do so for you in return. Many do not understand that I am against such actions, even after hundreds of my refusal to take part in them.
I know that you are not talking about some country at the bottom of the list composed by Transparency International...
It can get pretty explicit, too. Once I found out what Monsieur Untel planned to do to Madame Unetelle, and I could not hide my astonishment. Monsieur Untel assured me not to worry, because he did not plan to do the same to me.
You'd start wondering about Monsieur Untel's definition of justice and fairness.
Precisely. He does not seem to be aware of his own criterion, or at least that is the impression that he wants to give to others. Anything is permissible if it does not happen to him. He was puzzled when I remained appalled after his reassurance. He is in the dark about one important principle. That is, if one takes a certain action against someone, there is a very good chance that s/he would do the same to some other.
We'd better stay away from anyone who gossips badly, because most likely, s/he would be gossiping about us as badly to other people.
These happenings have led me to suspect that we more often fail than succeed in understanding each other, because we are limited by our own thinking circuits. If we want to please others, we do to them what we would like them to do to us. If it doesn't, we are often at a loss. A person, who thinks everybody is out to get him, believes that I, too, think that everybody is out to get me.
Ah, I know which one you are talking about... So Comrade, are we the same, or are we not?
We are so similar that we easily agree on the importance of concepts such as: love, charity, kindness, honor, respect, friendship, kinship, knowledge, and so on. What they mean in practice is a totally different story.
For some, love would mean love for and of God, and then, it gets even worse as we cannot agree on who that is.
It is nothing but irony that people hate each other over love. Some people love their own god so much that they do not hesitate to kill others who love some other gods.
Something similar happens on an individual basis, too. You remember the days of duels over love?
That was before my time... By the way, have you noticed that we try extremely hard to understand another person when we are in love with her/him? I can't think of any other occasion that matches in its intensity.
Considering the human nature that we seek confirmation of who we are and what we think, it's quite remarkable.
Or, we can say that it is why it becomes difficult to fall in love as we age and become set in our ways.
Comrade, we have to start calling you an ageist...
Do you remember our discussion that the desire for diversity, change, or control makes us want to have multiple partners, either successively or simultaneously, with benefits in the bedroom? I am beginning to realize that artists have an additional incentive to fulfill that desire: to take their artistic endeavors to another domain.
They want sensuous experiences that would inspire them, and that is possible by being in love.
Pablo has left wonderful art for which his lover at the time served as a model and/or muse, as well as a number of profound remarks about art.
He has also left a trail of family members who were extremely unhappy and depressed.
What are we to think about someone who sent the people around him to hell, but continues to save thousands of other souls?
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